In this episode, we had the pleasure of speaking with Digital Marketing Doctor, founder and owner, Judy Lin. Judy speaks about the power of podcasting, its rising popularity and its influence on the world of digital marketing.
Host: How you doing everybody? We are here with Judy Lin, the founder and owner of the DMD agency, which is a digital marketing agency. She’s been in the digital marketing business for approximately 18 years and currently services medical doctors and other types of businesses out there. So, Judy, what’s going on?
Judy: Hi Craig.
Host: Thanks again for joining me today and you know the reason for this podcast is to really get into the meat and potatoes of digital marketing, how it relates to podcasting, how podcasting is now really become such a growing platform and how it’s become more popular in the digital marketing space. And I really wanted to find out from you, from the digital marketing perspective, the podcasting value to your clients and just in general.
Judy: Yes, I definitely see that podcasting is becoming a huge form of digital media, but the problem is I’m finding is that most people don’t even know what podcasting is. And I mean, the other day I sat in with another medical institute and I was describing what podcasting is and what we can do with it and she just stares at me and said well, I don’t even know what that is exactly. Can you explain that? And it is kind of surprising for me because I am coming from a professional digital side perspective. But on the client side, I can understand why the mainstream don’t even know what podcasting is. I did explain to her, in the simplest terms, it is a form of media and as a form of audio and it’s an audio vehicle for advertising for brand awareness and a huge number of other things such as SEO. But I think it needs to go to a very basic fundamental level first for them to catch on. And from there they see some sort of progression of what podcasting does and how to reveal your branding. Let’s say for example, the Eye Institute (CA), they might want to try it. But I think they’re not really wanting to make the jump just yet until they see how it’s been used from others.
Host: Yeah. I know podcasting has been around for some time now, but it’s really kind of gaining a lot of steam in popularity recently. You see a lot of people who are big names out there and their industries, whether it be in the medical field, whether it be in the entertainment field or whatever it is gravitating towards podcasting. People, celebrities, and so many others are now using and know the value of podcasting when it comes to developing a brand and kind of getting the word out, whatever that word may be. It also allows them to talk about their expertise and realize that there’s so much value in podcasting and they could reach so many more people now through this platform. It’s grown so much. And now in today’s day and age where everybody has a smartphone, you have access to a wide variety of media, specifically podcasts, which are pretty much at your fingertips anywhere you go.
Judy: Yeah. And if you think about it, it’s not like a radio or tv where you have to sit through and listen to commercials that you don’t really want to. The beautiful part with podcasting is you can choose who you want to follow, who you want to listen to, what subject matter you want to listen to and subscribe. And I think that even on a personal level, I really enjoy the fact that I can choose what I want to hear.
Host: You know, I’m glad you said the word personal, because I think that is probably one of the foundational words when I think of podcasting. Podcasting is such a personal thing. You know people who listen to podcasts have their specific podcast that they listen to and over time develop a relationship indirectly with the people that they listened to. They get to learn about them personally. They get to listen to what they have to say. A lot of times they’re like, yes, what that person is saying, it really resonates with me and as a result they keep coming back and they keep listening. Before you know it, the podcaster has developed a trust and a bond with his or her listeners.
Judy: It’s almost like a relationship because you are getting to know that podcaster, the way they think, the way they do business the way they strategize and it’s a huge form of education. I almost feel like podcasting is the easiest way to retain information because you’re listening to a conversation. You’re listening to a discussion. You’re listening to the insights of the person. Whereas an editorial piece, don’t get me wrong. Editorial is still always needed, and videos always needed, but you retain more when you feel that you’re having a conversation with someone even though you’re not really having a conversation with that person in front of you, but it feels like it. So, you will retain more of that information in your mind. And at times that information could snowball into something else that you’re interested in, so you’re going to want to subscribe, you’re going to want to continue to follow that person.
Host: It reminds me of this growing trend now with audio books. People are now listening to books as opposed to reading them. Like you can drive your car to work and listen to a book just like you’re listening to a podcast. Like I don’t know the exact number, but there’s this statistic on how many people listen to podcasts are actually listened to them in their cars. Like on their way to work. It is very convenient. It’s super convenient. I got to say I’m a little biased, but it’s really super convenient and you can pick and choose exactly what you want. You have such a wide variety of choices. If you look at it this way, it’s like podcasting is like you have this library of different things that you can choose from and you can listen to any type of subject matter and really kind of dive in and have this personal connection with that person speaking and then the guests that they have on because a lot of podcasts have guests and it’s just really great. I know so many people out there that really enjoy it and I think it’s a good way really to get your voice, your perspective and your brand out there.
Judy: That’s right. And you know, to add to that, you got to look at also from a professional view, it’s like this discussion, right? We’re talking about the benefits and all the great insights that you get from podcasting, but why are professionals not doing this yet?
Host: You know, I think a lot has to do with maybe knowledge. Maybe they don’t know enough about podcasting and actually realizing that there’s business value in podcasting.
Judy: Or they don’t know how to do it. Like they don’t know how to go about it, you know, until someone comes in and guides them.
Host: True, and that’s kind of like the flip side, so there’s probably people out there who do know about it and realize, well I don’t have the time or the wherewithal to put this together, but it’s a great idea. I want to do it, but I just don’t have the time to do it. And I think that’s where someone in the digital marketing space, like you, comes in and your kind of filling that void that many people are really looking for.
Judy: So, speaking from a digital marketing perspective, if I were to present this to a client, I see podcasting as a major form of content, it’s one of the top three forms of content besides video and editorial and podcasting is an audio file. And with an audio file, I could recycle that on so many different levels. And it’s actually a really big SEO component that most people don’t know about right now. But there’s ways of syndicating to help you with the SEO juice and indexing on Google. It’s also a great brand and PR piece that a lot of people can take advantage of as well and capitalize on that.
Host: Yeah, it’s definitely a growing platform and I think more people are becoming more familiar with it and see there’s a lot of value in getting involved in podcasting. And again, it’s pretty easy to put together. I mean it’s not a big production to get it going and I think people find value in that too. It’s like you don’t have to make a huge investment.
Judy: So, it’s like 20 minutes. I mean, you and I have done podcasting before. It takes what, 20 minutes of your time and you can do this frequently and that’s the other thing, it doesn’t have to be a one-time deal. So, it depends on what you want to do as a professional. If you want to continue to educate, let’s say your patients or if you want to educate your customers on a specific offering or a service or a how to, or a technology, you do want to compile a series and we just basically make that into episodes.
Host: Yeah, absolutely. And I think consistency is key. I mean if you want to develop a relationship with the people that you are putting information out to you, you do need to be consistent because people are going to like what you’re saying, and you want those same people to keep coming back.
Judy: Even just as a follower. Let’s say I follow someone, and they’re gone, like within like a month. You start questioning, well, why did they just disappear? I mean, that’s not a very established podcast, right?
Host: I think there’s credibility there and I think that there is the consistency part. Knowing that people could keep coming back and getting information that they’re looking for. They heard some good information and now I want to come back and hear more from what that person has to say. I think it definitely provides a lot of value being consistent with the platform. So, Judy, obviously in addition to the value of being consistent with putting your information out there when you get involved with podcasting, it also develops you into almost an authority within your space. Like if you’re trying to talk about some specific topic, people will know to go to you to listen to what you have to say about certain things. If you’re working with doctors, you know they’re going to keep going back and listening to those doctors to hear what they have to say about their practice, about certain things that are popular in the medical field and so on and so forth. And it doesn’t necessarily have to be just medical. Podcasting covers a variety of different things. And whatever you’re talking about, you almost become a specialist in that category.
Judy: That’s right. I mean, that’s the goal of most professionals as they want to be perceived as the expert or authority of their industry. Or why would you go to them? You know, I mean everyone wants to be led by someone that is a pro, an expert, and they know what they’re talking about. They have the credentials, they know how to guide you, they know how to educate you and you want to learn from the best. I mean that’s the key of the branding of whatever professional is trying to do in their marketing. I think when you reach that level of authority, then the game changes for everything on SEO, on your rankings. It changes the perception of your followers and your fan base. I think that’s when you start catching on fire with the tipping point of accruing either more customers or more patients.
Host: So Judy, this made me think, what is it about podcasting that is really so much different in the digital marketing venue, so to speak? Like what makes it so different than all the other things that you do in digital marketing?
Judy: Well I think podcasting is very revealing. It’s definitely a different format compared to, let’s say editorial. That’s a written content or even video. Video is very visual, but the problem with video is they include too much all at once, too many elements they show like the office or the clinic and then you’ve got testimonials. It’s great as an overview, but I think podcasting personalizes in a way that the other forms don’t, and I also feel that with podcasting, it’s revealing of the person’s personality. You get an inside scoop that you don’t see on paper. You get a feel and a vibration of let’s say that doctor or that business professional and you can tell a lot by the way someone speaks and how they articulate their tonality. So, I think the personalization of podcasting is a major advantage that the other forms don’t have and it’s a continual relationship, because when you hear someone’s voice, it’s pretty impactful.
Host: Yeah, I agree. I can tell you from a consumer’s perspective if I’m doing research on a business or I have a business or something that I frequent, I go to their website and I click on there about tab. I try to find out a little bit about their business and read the story behind how their practice or business developed and you get to see some photographs of who they are, but you know, it’s very limiting to a certain degree. I mean I’m seeing photos and I’m reading information, but how much more valuable would it be to actually hear some type of audio to where the business owner talks about their business or even just talk about themselves. To use doctors as an example. I think there’s just kind of like a mystery behind doctors. They’re so busy with doing their thing, it’s hard to actually know a doctor or at least from my point of view.
Judy: Those are great points. That’s a perfect example of what you’re saying. Let’s say you’re going into someone’s website and then you’re reading about them, about their bio and looking at photos. That’s a one-dimensional experience. Podcasting is more like an inter-dimensional experience. You know, you can hear them, you can feel them. You can also hear a story, and I know people say this all the time about storytelling and sounds like a very saturated term, but there’s an element of storytelling that makes that story or makes that more real, than it is on paper or on a website. So, the podcasting gives that chance for a person to reveal who they are.
Host: I think personally that’s huge, because I know I go out there and I do my research. I know there’s a lot of other people going out there and doing the research. Listen, why are these apps popular? Especially these review apps like yelp and all these other apps that people are going out to and taking their time to leave reviews and getting to know about businesses. If they had a great experience, they’re going out there and telling people that they had a great experience. If they have a bad experience, they go out and tell people that they had a bad experience. My point is that people are savvy enough go out there and use the tools and the resources that the Internet provides and that means people are going to be going to your website, people are going to be looking at and learning about you and having this added audio value is huge. I think that’s something that’s so many other people aren’t doing and to be able to be one of the few individuals that are doing that, would definitely set you and your business apart from others.
Judy: To add to that from a marketing perspective, podcasting is an interactive component. So, if you go on someone’s website, you read this flat screen with a bunch of words. Well, when you watch a video and then you listen to a podcast, doesn’t that change your perception now? The dynamic element of it is what is very seductive for people and it’s also very compelling for people and that’s the element that I think digital marketing needs to bring more out of.
Host: I was thinking as you mentioned that, it also develops a conversation between the person who has the podcast and the person listening. Someone listening to that podcast may come up with questions, they may want to hear more and be more interested in learning about that business or individual. The podcast acts as a funnel back to their website or to their social media accounts and establishes a connection. Listeners know that they see the business owner as someone that they really want to connect to and can reach out to. So, it’s pretty interesting, at least in my experience and has been really nothing but a positive.
Judy: Yeah, definitely. And then you mentioned earlier about what they’re 67 million people on a monthly level that listened to podcasts.
Host: Yes and that number is continually growing. I forget the actual percentage of Americans that actually listen to a podcast on a monthly basis. There’s a number attached to it, but it’s steadily growing and it’s almost becoming like the preferred form of media for people to get information. Mainly, because it’s so accessible. As far as like your traditional am/fm radio in your car and stuff like that, that’s kind of gone by the wayside. More people are going to listen to podcasts because it’s specifically what they want to hear. It’s the subject matter that they want to hear. They don’t have to worry about all the ads and stuff that may be attached to just general radio and nowadays everything’s accessible. In your car and on your phone, it’s so easy. If people like what you’re saying and want to know more about you, they have constant access to you, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. That’s all the time, no matter where they are, no matter where they’re located, they can access the information that you have and that’s something I don’t think that you can do with other forms of media.
Judy: If you think about $67 million listeners on a monthly level, that’s, that’s a new audience that you have never tapped into before. That’s a whole new fishnet, as I call it, you know?
Host: Yeah and I think the more you see companies like Apple grow, your going to have more ways to access podcasts. There is so many more apps that you have on your phone. There’s so many different places that you can go to access your favorite programs. And it’s everything from storytelling, to business, to sports, to anything you could possibly imagine. Entertainment is accessible and people gravitate towards it. They know that that they can go to a specific app and that’s their go to place to find information about what they’re interested in.
Judy: I also think podcasts are easier than most people think. It sounds intimidating, but it’s not as complex as people make it out to be. And the other thing is podcasting is a way that you don’t have to pay, let’s say radio stations and buy time or tv time, I mean, it’s a much more economical way, more efficient way to broadcast news and your branding.
Host: Yeah, I agree. I think sometimes it can be intimidating for people to see it, especially when you don’t know. There may not be a ton of information out there, even though there is starting to be more now, especially from a marketing perspective. I can see how someone would say that they don’t really know too much about podcasting and how is it really going to help me? But really the benefits are huge. It shouldn’t be seen as too intimidating because it’s not. It’s a very simple process.
Judy: That’s right
Host: So, Podcasting has all these benefits, but what do you do exactly with it?
Judy: So a few things that you can quickly do with podcasting is you can repurpose it, you could use it for PR, for branding, for your website, for blogs, you could use it for SEO, you could syndicate it on multiple platforms. There are many ways to repurpose it and that’s the beauty of podcasting. It’s not set in stone and that’s it, it’s continual and it’s very flexible.
Host: So Judy, a question I really wanted to ask you was from a simple expense perspective, can you really tell me the advantage of podcasting to your clients?
Judy: Yeah, sure. Podcasting in general, I don’t see it as like a major expense in comparison to other expenses that the clients have spent a lot of money on. So, with podcasting, I think you pay for the recording and of course the SEO afterwards, but in general as far as continual expenses there is really no expense because we’re doing this organically. It’s not like Instagram ads or paid media or Facebook ads. That’s a constant expense on a monthly basis, right. But podcasting is being understood and listened to in an open forum where people choose to subscribe to you. So, there’s not really like a continual expense for podcasting, I think it is probably the most economical of them all.
Host: I think we spoke about this on a previous podcast about the difference between an expense and an investment when it comes to digital marketing. I definitely see this as a pretty big investment, because I think there is a big return.
Judy: So, the investment would be on the return, on the benefit, on the beneficial side of it. But I don’t see it as like, you need to put down an x amount of money just to get it going. I don’t see that at all. It’s actually a very simple process.
Host: Yeah, I agree with that is if it is a very simple process and I think there’s a lot of return on the back end for let’s say, a minimal expense.
Judy: It’s a very minimal expense. I mean if you look at it, if people are paying, let’s say five to eight grand a month on whatever advertising that they’re doing before, and you compare that to podcasts, it’s a very tiny little sliver, minuscule expense. I wouldn’t even call it an expense. I call it as a media outlet. That tends to be an open forum for anyone. So, I don’t even calculate this as an expense.
Host: So, Judy, I just want to take this moment to thank you for spending your time here with me answering these questions about the value of podcasting, specifically in digital marketing. So, thanks for being here. I really appreciate that.
Speaker2: Yes. Thank you, Craig. I really enjoyed it.
Host: So, how can people find you and learn more about marketing and podcasting?
Judy: So, the easiest way is to just go to www.digitalmarketingdoctor.us all spelled out. One word, dot us (.us) is the key.
Host: So, before we wrap up for this week, is there anything else that you have to say or that you feel would be a really good finishing or ending point?
Judy: Do podcasting. It is going to deliver a lot more than you think.
Host: Yes, I absolutely agree.